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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Feb 1, 2009 9:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

I saw in the news that the Boss recently cut a deal with Walmart to market his music there. For a guy who supposedly is all about the plight of the common working man, this seems like a sellout move. Granted he will be exposed to a wider audience. But WALMART???? They are the poster child for oppressive labor tactics, union busting, overseas child labor, and making sure that the bulk of their employees do not work full time thus depriving them of benefits. I, for one, am very dissapointed in him, it's not like he needs the money or the exposure.

What is it with these aging musicians???? Bob Dylan was featured in a Super Bowl ad for PEPSI!!!! The Dead are charging many hundreds of dollars for special VIP packages... The Boss is in bed with Walmart.

I know Bob Dylan never really liked to be referred to as the voice of his generation, but as Bill Maher said in his New Rules segment... You don't get to chose whether you are the voice of a generation, the generation chooses you!!

[Actually the quote is : "Bob Dylan must stop denying he was the voice of a generation. Bob, that's not something you get to decide. It's fate and you were it. If your generation could actually choose a voice, don't you think they'd have picked one better than yours?" so I got it a little wrong, but I think the gist was correct.]

Led Zepplin, the Who, The Stones all sold out to commercialism (is that even a word?) years ago, but they never really proffessed to be anything but commercial entities. Michael Jackson sold the Beatles' Revolution to Nike, but if I remember correctly Yoko Ono, at least protested that.

I shouldn't be surprised, but I always hoped these people, who are not hurting in any way, and who seemed to stand for something different, would be able to resist the temptations of crass commercialism.

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2009-02-02 05:35:43

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Feb 1, 2009 8:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Selling out...the Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!



NEW YORK — The Boss is owning up to a mistake.

In an interview with The New York Times, Bruce Springsteen says he shouldn't have made a deal with Wal-Mart. This month, the store started exclusively selling a Springsteen greatest-hits CD.

Some fans were critical because Springsteen has been a longtime supporter of worker's rights, and Wal-Mart has faced criticism for its labor practices. Springsteen's team didn't vet the issue as closely as it should have, and that he "dropped the ball on it," he told the Times for a story to be published in Sunday editions and previewed on its Web site.

Springsteen went on to say: "It was a mistake. Our batting average is usually very good, but we missed that one. Fans will call you on that stuff, as it should be."

"Millions of Springsteen fans have counted on Wal-Mart over the years to deliver his music into their lives, and we will continue to offer those fans this 'Greatest Hits' exclusive and his other popular albums at unbeatable prices," Wal-Mart said in a statement, adding: "We are proud of the good jobs, benefits and career opportunities we provide to more than 1.4 million U.S. associates who choose to work at Wal-Mart and serve our customers every day."

Springsteen released his new CD "Working on a Dream" this week and is performing the halftime show at the Super Bowl.



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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Feb 2, 2009 9:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Selling out...the Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

Of course they knew who they were getting in bed with. Obviously he will still profit nicely from this arrangement. It's probably too much to hope for, but if he really is sorry, it would be nice if he would publicly do something positive with the proceeds of this Faustian deal.

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2009-02-02 17:52:25

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Poster: kochman Date: Feb 2, 2009 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The Boss is full of *%$#

Wait a minute man... the Boss is full of shit...
EVERYONE knows about Walmart... he said, oh, we didn't vet that one properly. My ass.
Notice he will also still be going ahead.

Smoke & mirrors as a friend says. The Boss knew exactly what he was doing, its called, anything for money.

Anyhow, that being said... I have no problem with Walmart's business practices.

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Poster: sugarshack Date: Feb 2, 2009 4:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

What gives you, or anybody else the right to tell another person how or with whom they can have a business arrangement? Bruce Springsteen made a deal with the "evil" Wal Mart because they offered him the most lucrative deal. If he wants to sell his music that way then that's his decision. It's his music, remember. This crap about "dropping the ball on it" sounds like a guy who signed the deal and when his lefty buddies found out he had to apologize. Did he unsign the deal? I didn't think so.

Folks need to remember that these people have families that depend on them. If they can put a product out their and people are willing to pay top dollar for it, I say more power to them. If someone offered you a thousand dollars for the dinosaur fingerpainting(come on we all did one) that you made in the third grade you would take it in a heartbeat. How is this any different?

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Poster: PeterW. Date: Feb 2, 2009 8:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

"What gives you, or anybody else the right to tell another person how or with whom they can have a business arrangement? Bruce Springsteen made a deal with the "evil" Wal Mart because they offered him the most lucrative deal. If he wants to sell his music that way then that's his decision. It's his music, remember. This crap about "dropping the ball on it" sounds like a guy who signed the deal and when his lefty buddies found out he had to apologize. Did he unsign the deal? I didn't think so.

Folks need to remember that these people have families that depend on them. If they can put a product out their and people are willing to pay top dollar for it, I say more power to them. If someone offered you a thousand dollars for the dinosaur fingerpainting(come on we all did one) that you made in the third grade you would take it in a heartbeat. How is this any different?"


I guess... the first amendment gives us that right. What is so sacred about business deals that they cannot be criticized? It's not simply that he's acting like a greedy business men - tons of artists do that - it's that he claims to be more than that. I think when he pushes him image as a working class hero, it's quite fair for us to call him when he does something that clearly is contrary to that. Painting this as a "lefty" issue is woefully ignorant. The fact that Walmart treats their workers like total garbage in the US, and buys products overseas made with CHILD LABOR is not a left or right issue at all, it's a human issue, and Walmart is on the wrong side.

As far as the Springsteen family goes, I'm quite sure that they haven't had to worry about money for quite some time. This has nothing to do with family costs - it just makes him a little bit more ridiculously rich. If you want to actually talk about families that need support, you can start with the underpaid Walmart employees, move on to the small business owners shut out by Walmart, and finally talk to the children who make the goods overseas. Did you ever wonder WHY Walmart has low prices? They're low because they are built on the back of these individuals, and you can't see that, you're blind.


"Wal Mart, on the other hand, enables me to buy goods and services at a fair price in a cinvenient location."

Fair price? Uhh... cheap price, yes, but I don't think any price that is driven down due to child labor tactics can be called fair.

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Poster: headgdhead Date: Feb 2, 2009 11:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

"Fair price? Uhh... cheap price, yes, but I don't think any price that is driven down due to child labor tactics can be called fair."

Children NOT working is a fairly recent phenomena brought about by Western liberal self righteousness. For most of human history child labor was not only fair practice but a necessary practice for survival. Many places in the world still live that existence and to judge them based on our own value system is hardly enlightened.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Feb 2, 2009 11:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

"brought about by Western liberal self righteousness" -- just like the end of indentured servitude. I say Bring it back! Freedom of contract no matter the price.

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Poster: Finster Baby Date: Feb 2, 2009 8:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

Fair price? Uhh... cheap price, yes, but I don't think any price that is driven down due to child labor tactics can be called fair

So you are saying that the groceries that I buy at Walmart for up to half of the price that I can buy them in the grocery store is because Walmart's cheerios, Campbell soups, Etc are made in other countries by child labor while they same products at the supermarket are not?
Is that really what your trying to tell me?
Please explain further....I really would like to hear more on this theory about the "evil" Walmart....

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Poster: sugarshack Date: Feb 2, 2009 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

I never said that the deal could not be criticized. I believe that Springsteen was the one being criticized, not the deal. That's where my objection arose. My intent was not to paint the issue as lefty or righty. My intent was to point out the fact that all too often people's ideals often counter reality. The fact that some people, and I'm not one of them, hold Springsteen up as some sort of working man's hero, fair or not, and then knock him down when he does just what any other working man would do in his place is what got me.

As far as Wal Mart "treating their workers like garbage in the US and buys poducts overseas made with child labor is a human issue that Wal Mart is on the wrong side". Child labor is common everywhere in the world. These chidren often work as long and as hard as the adults do, and I don't like that any more than you do. I wish they didn't have to. But tell me, do you purchase only American goods made by adults? If you do, and you can prove it, I'd love to know your secret. Also, ask yourself what other means of income would those families have if they were not producing those goods?





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Poster: Thai Stick Date: Feb 2, 2009 8:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

Nevermind the criticized Walmart deal, my problem is with
his use of the Guitar. Seems he could do every trick in the book, all but play the thing. Was it even
plugged in? There is no dening that Bruce Springsteen is a great American, but dont take the heart of music and play tricks with it. Play it man!!

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Poster: Stealz Date: Feb 2, 2009 6:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

It's different because unlike "The Boss", the majority of the people living in this country do not have a platform from which they are not only able but actually do profess their own opinion on a wide range of social, political, and global matters.

If he wants to fess up and say he made a mistake, cool. If not, no sweat off my sack. I understand the driving force behind the almighty dollar, but you can't stand up on behalf of the common man and his working conditions/rights then get in bed with Wal-Mart and expect nobody to notice.

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Poster: sugarshack Date: Feb 2, 2009 6:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

Agreed. However, what has Bruce Springsteen ever done to stand up for the rights of the working man? I'm not asking to be smart-ass. I'm asking because I don't know. I mean, I'm a working man and I'm pretty sure he's never done a damn thing for me. Wal Mart, on the other hand, enables me to buy goods and services at a fair price in a cinvenient location.

Don't get me wrong, I believe Springsteen to be one of the finest songwriters in recent history, but it's been a hell of a long time since he's had to sweat out the mortgage.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Feb 2, 2009 6:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

i never heard of anything he's done in that regard either. come to think of it, i cannot remember anything he has done of his own to benefit others.

and i'm sure that apology had a hint of a smirk in it. i'm not so sure Faustian really is going "too far" - but, hey, if he can get the quid, good for him. it is not like he professes to be as humanitarian as a bill gates etc

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Poster: craven714 Date: Feb 2, 2009 7:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

Half time show:
I was hoping for a wardrobe malfunction.
The one where Bruces zipper comes down, his balls come flopping out, and his pierced
right scrotum is seen just for a second or two.
I guarentee that shit wouldnt be on you tube the next day.

Your friend: "Hey! Did you see the Bosses pierced balls
last night during the half time show?"

You: "SHIT NO I DIDNT!!" "I didnt see a fucking thing!"

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Poster: snori Date: Feb 2, 2009 8:44am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

So this wasn't Bruce , then ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7864733.stm

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Poster: craven714 Date: Feb 2, 2009 9:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

nice find snori.
I had no idea.
I guess we'll have to wait for SDH to chime in and see
if his porn was interrupted by a superbowl game.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 2, 2009 11:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Local coverage takes on new meaning

We missed it; Tucson only!

Damn. Was Dire involved? Just Bessie?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Feb 2, 2009 7:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

lmao!!!

you are correct, THAT would have been freakin hilarious :)

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Feb 2, 2009 10:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!! Now Yoko Ono has sold John out to Nike!

"Folks need to remember that these people have families that depend on them."

Yes, until this deal came through, I'm sure Bruce's family was wondering where the next meal was coming from and whether the heat would be turned off. That argument is remineiscent (spelling??) of Weir saying that one reason that all the GD shows were originally pulled (anyone who was here in the fall of 2005 will remember that the archive originally pulled the whole GD collection including auds from the site. After some very severe criticism, the auds were restored fairly quickly, but the sbds were not available, even for streaming, for a while) was so he could send his kids to college.

Come on, Bruce has no real need for this money, Dylan did not have to allow his image and song to be used to shill Pepsi and the Dead don't really need to be charging $100 a ticket and $500 or more for so called VIP packages (it's a sad commentary on our culture, when all you need to be a VIP is extra cash).

I said in my original post here that Yoko had protected John's legacy from Nike. Well I wanted to make sure, and found out that I was very wrong. Yoko has just approved the use of his image and lyrics from Imagine to be used on a new "Peace Trainer" line of sneakers in the converse line!

Look, when you have as much moolah as these guys, it's no longer about feeding the kids, it's about accumulating wealth. It's like those ballplayers who move to another team because they got an extra million or two on a $50,000,000.00 deal. At that point it's only about the benjamins! This is to be expected from athletes, because they mostly don't pretend that it is about anything but money.


" If they can put a product out their and people are willing to pay top dollar for it, I say more power to them. If someone offered you a thousand dollars for the dinosaur fingerpainting(come on we all did one) that you made in the third grade you would take it in a heartbeat. How is this any different?"


It is very different because $1,000 WOULD make a big difference in my immediate ability to feed, clothe and house my family.

HOWEVER:

If I had made my mark, and millions of dollars, by standing up and speaking out against those evildoers who buy and sell dinosaur fingerpaintings at exhorbitant prices, I would not make the sale.

Of course Bruce has the right to make as much money as he can, just don't insult me by claiming to speak for struggling people while you're making a deal with Walmart of all people.

An extra $10,000,000 or so does not make a big difference to a guy who is worth over $100,000,000 and who is earning big bucks on tour and getting millions every month in royalties. This is generational money we are talking about. The kind of money he is worth, and the money he and his estate will make for many many decades to come will keep his family rich for generations, even without the WALMART deal. Unless someone really screws up, his great-great-great ...etc-grandchildren will have a shrine with a portrait of him over the mantle piece that they will worship at and thank every day for making their lives so comfortable as they blast Born To Run on the Home Theater system.

" However, what has Bruce Springsteen ever done to stand up for the rights of the working man?"

I am not aware of anything he has done to directly help the working man, but that is besides the point. He has cultivated that image and sold himself to the working people as a person who will speak for them through his lyrics.

If I was Bruce, and had made a living supposedly as some kind of voice for the working man, I would be very careful about who I went to bed with. Of course, it should come as no surprise if he has lost touch with the working man, he's a multi-multi-millionaire living in some Mansion On The Hill, but you would think he cared about his legacy and image.


This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2009-02-02 18:58:01

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Poster: sugarshack Date: Feb 2, 2009 11:58am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!! Now Yoko Ono has sold John out to Nike!

Well Purple, I think you and I feel the same way about Springsteen at this point. The hypocrisy stinks.

Unfortunately in these times the real people are tough to find and tougher to keep around. Situations like this is what keeps me from listening to entertainers once the music, or the movie stops. However,it's becoming tougher to do now that the entertainment industry is morphing into the political realm. I'm going home to listen to Greetings From Asbury Park.

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Poster: cosmic charlie dupree Date: Feb 2, 2009 12:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!! Now Yoko Ono has sold John out to Nike!

Good call.... When he released Asbury Park and Wild, Innocent, the extra $1,000 likely WOULD have made a big difference to him. Plus, those albums are fine snapshots of American culture!

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Poster: deyzof49 Date: Feb 2, 2009 3:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

"money does'nt talk it swears".

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: Feb 2, 2009 9:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

The Boss™ has nothing TO sell out...

"You may be The Boss in New Jersey, but you aint shit in L.A." -James Burton, to BS when his hamming almost ruined Roy Orbison's "Black And White Night."

This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2009-02-02 17:16:41

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Feb 2, 2009 9:17am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!! The Boss, Bob Dylan...The Dead....OUCH, it hurts!!!

"You may be The Boss in New Jersey, but you aint shit in L.A." -James Burton



awesome quote!!!! never heard that one. good call styrocue :)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 2, 2009 11:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!!

Look, everybody in the US is part of the military-industrial-complex, as well as the we-got-the-best-malls-complex, etc., etc. And we all take the good and the bad that comes with all that crap however we live our lives if we are even vaguely plugged "into the grid" as they say.

But, when someone like Bob or the Boss, writing lyrics, and living the life to inform their art depict themselves in a particular light, and we all appreciate that light and context, it just strikes one oddly when they "sell out" since part of their appeal, which they manipulated (I think that's clear) is that in the early days they opposed the sell out, wrote about the sell out, etc., etc.

It's no different than the time I said "I don't listen to 1975" and Rob called me on it by finding my OWN quote of when I did say I listened to it. If the Boss and Bob write lyrics mocking the system, lamenting the system, etc., 30-40 yrs ago, we sorta expect them to remain true to their roots.

If they sell out, it is fine for us to call them on the contradiction with the sentiments they endorsed in early lyrics, or interviews when they expressed the same disdain...

Further: if tomorrow you found out that Bob was raised like Parris Hilton, would you take his lyrcis in the same spirit of angst and turmoil they described? Maybe so...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Feb 2, 2009 12:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!!

well said Mr. Tell


to explicate further regarding your interesting analogy... i think it would be rather helpful to have side-by-side photos of both Bob and Paris in short-shorts. i do believe a profoundly illuminating discussion may arise in referemce to the details of their legs. both pros and cons of course.


(ok, maybe it wouldnt be "helpful", but could be entertaining)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 2, 2009 12:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!!

Ha! I cannot (thankfully!) even imagine what Bob's legs might look like! Ugh...somehow, skinny white toothpicks with age spots, liver spots, veins...aiiiggghhh! Gotta stop myself!...

Yeah, glad you realized I just tacked this at the bottom, on your ass, so to speak (hmm, what do we call the last post in a thread, anyhow?), to get to the bottom!

In the end, these sorts of sell outs are no biggie, but in a small way I think they do represent more for the big artists that were "anti-establishment" in tone and such since it is a departure from their roots.

In a way, it's why we keep quoting Jerry who we all adored for consistently saying things like: "who wants to follow a candidate we endorse? We have no claim to such knowledge...we are about our music and other folks need to get a life...etc., etc., cause we DON'T have ANY answers" paraphrasing...even though I know he may have sold out too in the end...to a degree.

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Poster: sugarshack Date: Feb 2, 2009 12:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!!

I guess we've all sold out. We enter young adulthood with certain expectations of ourselves and our peers, and then everything changes. We enter the real world and begin to slowly compromise our values until we really don't recognize ourselves anymore. The next thing you know your chating online with some burned out hippie while your supposed to be compiling a report of "Customer Orders 30 Days Past Due". Wow. I think I'll just go home and listen to 2-14-68.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Feb 2, 2009 1:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!!

True enough--no doubt that is why we are sensitive when our icons do the same thing! We expect them to be above it, at least if they wrote and sang about being detached or above it at some time in the early days...suppose that is the whole "i got a mortgage" aspect described above, which I appreciate.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Feb 2, 2009 1:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!!

if all the hippies cut off all their hair....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQrHcy3p9vU

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Feb 2, 2009 1:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: SELLING OUT!!

"The next thing you know your chating online with some burned out hippie..."


please, be kind to the geriatric folk 'round these parts. They are not always responsible for the idiocy they emanate. Plus, their feelings can get hurt really easily and may have to resort to sulking in the chair next to their denture holders.